Roguish Roguery

[Gaz]

So my rogue who I keep meaning to toss a guild app in for has gotten all the way to 61 as Combat Swords, but now I'm experiencing a bit of a problem. Mainly, stuff doesn't die fast enough. I'm using a Shadowrend Longblade (52.9DPS, 2.6 speed) for a mainhand and a quest reward dagger for the off. I've also got the 2-socket belt and 3-socket chestpiece out of Hellfire instances, and socketed them with Northrend gems.

Now, part of this may have to do with the fact that I've never leveled anything without some sort of self-healing through Outland (Blood DK, Fury Warrior, Shammie & Pally; derp), but it seems like I'm needing to stop and bandage almost every fight. On every other toon, I'd at least have to go 2-3 fights before I'd worry about healing.

My rotation is usually open with a Cheap Shot, Sinister Strike to 3-4 combo points, Kidney Shot, resume SS spam until either the mob dies, or I have another 3-4 combo points, at which point Evis or KS again, depending on how much health they have left. The one thing I'm noticing is that if I get a good string of crits, mobs drop ludicrously fast, but if I don't, one mob can batter me down to 60-70% health.

So I'm just wondering what I might be doing wrong. I'm also considering trying out a Mutilate spec, since I've heard it is very bursty, and that seems to be the only way for me to take things without taking a significant hit to my health. My main problem is trying to find a decent set of daggers. Every. Single. One on the AH is either a caster dagger or an overpriced old-world blue.

TL;DR version: Why is mah damage so low, and where can I get some good daggers for Mut?

Requisite Armory Link

[Rodrigo]

Looking at your armory and what you described I have some suggestions that should help you out.

1. Get rid of Eviscerate Glyph and get Killing Spree.

2. You also have some really old gear that you could try to replace, rings and wrist specially. Their item level is really low compared to the rest of your gear.

3. If you want to respec there is some things you can change on your spec to make it easier. Take out Deflection, Ripsote and Unfair Advantage. Get 5/5 on Combat Potency and Prey of the Weak. Also get Endurance (2/2) and 1 improved SnD.

4. Also using Sword and Daggers is not effective at all anymore. The Hack and Slash Specialization will let you get more attacks per sword or axe swing. But if you only have one sword you are cutting that chance down by 50%. Not that important on early levels, but still makes a difference.

5. Rogues are a super offensive class. They can't defend themselves with a shield, or with a pet to tank. They can control well and do a lot of damage. That's what you have to consider. Opening with Cheap Shot is usually good since you won't take damage, but that's not always true.

You can open with garrote on any caster and they will not be able to attack you for 3 seconds, while they are still taking damage. You should also Slice and Dice as soon as possible, there's no reason to not have it up on any fight.

As a finisher my best advice would be to use Eviscerate if there's only one target hitting you and kidney shot if there's more than one.

Most important remember the control part. Use disarm, blind, sap, gouge anytime it will help you to stay up longer. And be offensive and aggressive, don't try to outlive the mob, kill it!

[Sarkath!]

Or this. Dont level combat.
Assassination is a billion times better from 50-80.

[Loosh]

or shelve the rogue and level a DK and watch things die by the masses!!!!!!!! rogues are awesome too though!

[Gaz]

Originally Posted by Loosh

or shelve the rogue and level a DK and watch things die by the masses!!!!!!!! rogues are awesome too though!

Got me a DK at 80 already. And a pally. And a warrior. Playing someone not encased in big slabs of metal is kinda a new experience. I've since gotten myself a nice axe for my off-hand, although it's been surprisingly hard to find any replacements for my rings & wrist. The only leather wrist pieces I've seen on the AH are resist pieces and "of the Whale" uselessness. Ditto all the rings seem to be caster rings, with narry a useful melee one to be found.

Still, Wowhead tells me that when I get out to Zang, there'll be a nice new bracer waiting for me there, and I'm sure ring upgrades will come my way... Eventually. The one thing that really made a difference for me was leveling my First Aid up to 350 and making myself a boatload of Frostweave Bandages. That's gotten rid of the whole downtime issue, but I'm still feeling like things aren't dying as fast as they should...

[Wugglez]

I open with garrote, slice and dice, ss, rupture, ss ss ss etc, finish with evicerate. Use stuns, bf, etc when going after big pulls.

Edit: Also, check out www.shadowpanther.net. he gives good specs and rotations for pulls of 1-6+ mobs.

[Gaz]

I managed to score myself a pair of half-decent daggers (read:not spellpower ones :P ), so I figured I'd give Assassination a try. Now stuff is dying almost too quickly. All the rotations I've read say to pop SnD after the CS, & use Envenom to keep it up after that. Thing is, I find stuff dies a heck of a lot faster if I just CS, Mut, Envenom. If I've had decent luck getting Deadly Poison stacks up, that's usually all I need to do to kill something my own level.

The downside is I can't deal with multiple mobs as well, since I seem to have no AoE/Multi-target abilities, so I have to set up the pull just right, and if I get adds, Blind, Evasion, or Vanish & try again seem to be my only options. And at least if things do go badly, I've got Frostweave Bandages to heal myself up again. :P

[alexjr]

Originally Posted by Gaz

I managed to score myself a pair of half-decent daggers (read:not spellpower ones :P ), so I figured I'd give Assassination a try. Now stuff is dying almost too quickly. All the rotations I've read say to pop SnD after the CS, & use Envenom to keep it up after that. Thing is, I find stuff dies a heck of a lot faster if I just CS, Mut, Envenom. If I've had decent luck getting Deadly Poison stacks up, that's usually all I need to do to kill something my own level.

The downside is I can't deal with multiple mobs as well, since I seem to have no AoE/Multi-target abilities, so I have to set up the pull just right, and if I get adds, Blind, Evasion, or Vanish & try again seem to be my only options. And at least if things do go badly, I've got Frostweave Bandages to heal myself up again. :P

If you're just out questing and fighting mobs your own level, then you don't need to bother with SnD, Deadly Poison stacks, or anything like that. Like you said, things die too fast for you to be worried about that.

Have fun just experimenting with different openers and quick rotations. If you don't want to worry about having to heal yourself, then what I do when I'm doing dailies is practice my pvp-style lockdowns. The mob's usually dead before it can even take a swing or cast a spell.

If you get multiple mobs on you, it becomes a good time to practice all your "controlling" abilities (i.e. Disarm, Blind, Gouge, etc). These tools are just as important for a rogue as the damage dealing ones. Its not always about AoEing everything down, its also about picking them off one by one (especially since they go down quickly).

[Giggidee]

If you are having an issue with multiple mobs, remember to Sap... a critical skill for immobilizing one enemy. If you do get multiple mobs, just as Alexjr said use you abilities such as Disarm, Blind, and Gouge...

I will usually pick one target to kill first, switch to the other mob and gouge, and switch back to kill the main target... since you Assassination now, as you said things will die quick so it's not a real issue...

Also, use Instant point in your MH weapon and Deadly in your OH weapon; that's just rule of thumb for Ass Rogues (lol... Ass Rogues)

I have a Rogue Blog, and I made a post about Rogue builds... rotations... and etc... from different rogue websites out there... have it a read (http://gnomendagger.wordpress.com/20...tions-and-you/)

[alexjr]

Originally Posted by Giggidee

If you are having an issue with multiple mobs, remember to Sap... a critical skill for immobilizing one enemy. If you do get multiple mobs, just as Alexjr said use you abilities such as Disarm, Blind, and Gouge...

I will usually pick one target to kill first, switch to the other mob and gouge, and switch back to kill the main target... since you Assassination now, as you said things will die quick so it's not a real issue...

Also, use Instant point in your MH weapon and Deadly in your OH weapon; that's just rule of thumb for Ass Rogues (lol... Ass Rogues)

I have a Rogue Blog, and I made a post about Rogue builds... rotations... and etc... from different rogue websites out there... have it a read (http://gnomendagger.wordpress.com/20...tions-and-you/)

I'm sorry, but if you're a gnome, then anything you have said is now invalid.